Series: Journey Through Revelation (Week 1 of 8)
Dr. Woodrow Kroll
July 7, 2010

Woodrow Kroll: OK, here's a big word: preterism. What is preterism?

Tami Weissert: And what does it have to do with the study of Revelation?

Woodrow Kroll: Stay tuned for the answer in today's study. Hi, I'm Woodrow Kroll.

Tami Weissert: I'm Tami Weissert.

Woodrow Kroll: And this is Back to the Bible.

Tami Weissert: Welcome, everyone, to our journey through Revelation. OK, Wood, preterism--that is not a word that we're very familiar with.

Woodrow Kroll: I admit it is one of those theological terms.

Tami Weissert: The fact that you're using it tells me that it's important. So please tell us--what is preterism and why is it so important for us to understand?

Woodrow Kroll: In one sentence, preterism is the belief that everything in the Book of Revelation is already past; it's already been fulfilled. This may have been prophecy when it was written but it's all behind us now.

Tami Weissert: There's more to find out about preterism and a whole lot more to learn about the future. So let's get right to our study here on Back to the Bible.

Woodrow Kroll: As we look at the Book of Revelation, we want to understand Is it about the past or is it about the future yet to come? There are only certain passages of Scripture, certain texts of Scripture that this seems to be a problem for us. Daniel 9 is one of those. Zechariah 14 is one of those. Clearly Matthew 24 is a passage like that and the parallel one in Luke 21.

But the entire Book of Revelation is up for grabs. Is this a past event or is it still a future event?

Now, generally the preterist view of this passage is that it was fulfilled in A.D. 70 when the Romans came to the city of Jerusalem and destroyed the city of Jerusalem. There are those who would argue that fulfilled everything that is written in the Book of Revelation.

All the events of the Book of Revelation can be understood by the event that happened at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

I want to say right up front that while I respect the belief that is called preterism, and while I have many friends who hold this belief, I am a futurist myself. I don't see preterism as fitting all the facts as I see them in Scripture. So, I'm going to contrast preterism today as one who was trained in this area in seminary but came to different conclusions simply in reading the Bible.

I see 2 Peter 3:3-4 as a very clear warning. The Bible says there will come scoffers in the last days saying where is the promised Messiah? And I have a lot of dear friends who scoff at the idea that anything in the Book of Revelation is future. I don't scoff at that idea. I think that's the truth.

So as we look at preterism today, I want to talk a little bit about what the variations of this belief that Revelation is past, what those variations are. And then I'll come back in a few minutes and ask some questions about preterism.

First of all, preterism's been around since the first century. The whole concept that the Book of Revelation is a past event is not new. Some of the church fathers held this concept. But the understanding of Revelation itself as an entire past event probably didn't take place until about the 16th century.

There was, at the Council of Trent, which was basically held as a response or a reaction to the Protestant Reformation, at the Council of Trent, a Spanish Jesuit by the name of Luis D. Alcazar wrote a book, a 900-page book, by the way, on Revelation in which he interpreted all of Revelation as a historical event.

Now, while the understanding of prophecy as a historical event has been around forever, probably the understanding of Revelation as historical prophecy started in about the 16th century.

There are some people today who are partial or "moderate" preterists, they would call themselves. Just think about this: Every eschatological view, whether you are a preterist (believing it's past) or a futurist (believing it's future)--every eschatological view has variations of belief. You know, we all slice the pie differently.

And if you're a preterist today, there are variations of the way you understand the Bible. Moderate preterists claim that they still believe in a future Second Coming. They insist that the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24 and 25), the Book of Revelation basically had been fulfilled in the past, but they moderate the position in saying, "However, we believe that Jesus will still come at some point."

This means, though, that everything that you understand about the Book of Revelation, that you may have thought was future, to even a partial preterist, is already done.

For example, there will be no seven-year Tribulation. That's past. There's no literal Antichrist. You don't even have to worry about the Antichrist. Israel has no place in the program of God for the future. There will be no Battle of Armageddon. The thousand year reign, not going to happen. Future binding of Satan, Satan is bound today. All of those are beliefs of preterism. They all hold that all these things that you read in the Book of Revelation, all of them, are already historically accounted for in A.D. 70.

That means, then, that some people say, "No, it goes even further than that." Those who are partial preterists, who believe most of it has already passed but there may be some future events, are contradicted by those who call themselves "full preterists." In fact, they like to refer to themselves as consistent preterists because they see everything as already having taken place. "Every Bible prophecy there is has been fulfilled," they say, "in A.D. 70 when the Romans came in and destroyed Jerusalem."

So, they view the event of the Second Coming of Christ as having occurred in A.D. 70. They reject any future return of Christ. They deny any future bodily resurrection of believers. They deny a literal return of Christ to the earth.

In fact extreme preterists, those who are full preterists, who believe everything is past, say that we are now living in the new heaven and the new earth.

Now, here's one of the reasons why I have trouble with that: I still take out my garbage once a week, you know. There are just lots of things in government that don't please me. I just don't see, in the world today, that this particular understanding of Scripture can possibly be accurate. That's why I choose not to be a preterist. And if you choose to be one, God bless you. That's OK.

Our criteria for fellowship is not going to be whether or not we believe future is future or the future is past.

But just so all of us understand, those who say Revelation is historical, it's done with, it's over, let me just tick off several of the beliefs of that you ought to know about.

For example, a preterist would believe that Nero, the emperor of Rome (you know, Rome burned and Nero fiddled?)--The preterist would believe that Nero was the Antichrist, that the Antichrist is not a future person; there is no future individual known as the Antichrist. The preterist would say, "No, that was Nero."

A preterist would believe that the Tribulation period is already over. It occurred when the Roman armies came in and besieged Jerusalem, A.D. 66-70. That was the Tribulation according to preterist belief.

A preterist would say that Christ returned in the clouds in A.D. 70 to witness the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman armies. And so all the references to the future return of the Lord are now historically over because Christ came back in the clouds in A.D. 70. The interesting thing is that there is no reference in the Bible to that. But, nonetheless, in this system of belief, that has to be the case because they deny any future return of the Lord.

A preterist would say that God replaced Old Testament Israel with the New Testament church. And so all the promises God made to His people, Israel, are now promises that can be claimed by you and me as the Church.

God doesn't have any dealings with Israel in the future, that Israel is no longer a part of the program of God. God has annulled His covenant with Israel; and He's made a new covenant, the New Covenant with you and me and the Church.

A preterist would say that Armageddon has already taken place. It was A.D. 70 The fall of Babylon, as is referenced in the Book of Revelation, a preterist would understand as being the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans.

A preterist would say that Satan is already bound in the abyss. He cannot hinder the spread of the Gospel. They would say that Revelation 20 is already complete; it is historical; hence, the word preterist, which comes from Latin meaning "past."

Basically, preterism, then, is simply a belief that Revelation was, at one point, future when it was written; but it's already been fulfilled in all the things that happened in A.D. 70.

Now, you say to yourself, Why do preterists believe this? In all fairness to them, the reason a preterist believes this is that there are a lot of passages in Scripture that talk about things happening quickly.

For example, the passage that refers to Jesus coming quickly (Revelation 22:20); that refers to "this generation will not pass until these things are fulfilled" (Matthew 24:34).

People take these and they say, "It has to have occurred very quickly after it was written because that's the clear implication of this passage."

Daryl Bock, who is a professor at Dallas seminary and is a futurist, relates this about that interpretation. He says, "What Jesus is saying is that this generation that sees the beginning of the end will also see the end (not that it's the generation they were living in at that time but whatever generation sees the beginning is also going to see the end). When the signs come, they will proceed quickly. They will not drag on for many generations. It will happen within one generation."

So, you see, however you interpret the Book of Revelation, when you raise questions about another person's interpretation of that book, they will probably have an answer for your question.

But I think it's necessary for us today to think about the potential that the Book of Revelation is already historically finished because tomorrow we're going to think about the potential that the Book of Revelation is still future.

Tami Weissert: Dr. Kroll's word for the day is "preterism." Hi, I'm Tami Weissert here on Back to the Bible and of course, I'm here with Bible teacher, Woodrow Kroll.

Wood, as you explained preterism, the belief that Revelation is historical, it's already taken place in the past, I can't help but think that presently, there aren't many believers who follow that full preterist view, but would there be quite a few who are partial preterists? Is that a correct assumption?

Woodrow Kroll: Being a partial preterist is a little bit like being a quasi-Chicago-Cubs fan. Either you're a Cubby fan or you're not. There may be some who believe some things in the Book of Revelation are historical, others yet to be fulfilled. But ordinarily, you would either view Revelation as prophetic or historical and not mix the two.

As we're journeying through Revelation in our study series this summer, I want to give you several other journeys to think about as well. The first one is our Back to the Bible journey to Oberammergau and the sites of Martin Luther.

Tami Weissert: That's coming up pretty soon, isn't it?

Woodrow Kroll: It is--September 14th through the 22nd as a matter of fact. That's when we'll celebrate that once-in-a-decade performance of the Passion Play in Oberammergau, Germany. We're also going to visit the sites of Martin Luther--his birthplace in Eisleben, the Wartburg castle, the church door at Wittenberg where Luther tacked his 95 theses.

Tami Weissert: And here's the great thing: You get Dr. Kroll as your tour guide. Wood, you've got to love the church history that you'll be seeing in this tour.

Woodrow Kroll: It's very inspiring and I hope everyone of you will check out the details of this tour on our web site at backtothebible.org.

Tami Weissert: And while you're there, you can also read up on our week at Willowbank, Bermuda coming up October 23rd through the 29th. I have to be honest, Wood. That's one of my favorite getaways--the great Bible teaching, great fellowship, and the beautiful island setting--they make for a wonderful spiritual retreat.

Woodrow Kroll: They do. I always love the chance to meet our listening family face-to-face. Friends like you from all over the United States and Canada and elsewhere, we want you to be one of them. So go to our web site, backtothebible.org and click on the "Back to the Bible Journeys" button to learn more about our fall tours to Oberammergau and our week at Willowbank in Bermuda.

Tami Weissert: You can also call us. The phone number is 1-800-759-2425.

Let's return to our study about the preterist view of Revelation. Here's Dr. Kroll.

Woodrow Kroll:  Now, I said I have some questions about the preterist view. By the way, I have some questions about the futurist view, too, so wait until tomorrow and we'll ask those questions. But for all those of you who may understand that Revelation is already a completed event, here are the things that trouble me about this view of Scripture.

Preterists insist that they're defending the Bible because they make prophecies fulfilled events. Now, that's a great way not to go out on a limb like a lot of futurists have and make foolish predictions. But I'm not sure that's the way the Bible intended for us to understand it. I believe that conclusions that preterists come to about the Bible fly in the face of what God says in the Bible.

Let me give you some examples:

The whole idea that Satan is today bound and not having any influence on the world seems to me to contradict Peter's statement that the devil is a roaring lion, you know, wandering around seeking who he may devour. (See 1 Peter 5:8)

They would say, "Yeah, but that's already been fulfilled." My problem is, I think the devil's still alive and well today. And he bothers me on a daily basis. You know, if Satan is bound, then why are all these nations being deceived by false religions and false gods?

If we're already in the Millennium today, why is there still war going on today? and the Millennium was to be a period of peace. And if the nations have already beaten their weapons into plowshares, (Isaiah 2:4), as the Bible says they will, if the one thousand years is only symbolic, I just don't remember when the nations did this.

In looking at history I can't find a place where everybody disarmed unilaterally or together and said, "We're going to beat our weapons into plowshares." I don't find that in history.

If God is finished with ethnic Israel, with the nation Israel, why then did Paul say, "Has God cast away His people?" And why did he respond so emphatically, "God forbid. God will never cast away His people." That comes from Romans 11:1.

Why did Paul ask Israel, "Have they stumbled that they should fall and then immediately respond, "God forbid!"

God isn't done with Israel. It doesn't appear to me that God is done with Israel. Why would Paul say that the blindness of Israel is happening in part until the fullness of the Gentiles come, and then imply that the blindness would be taken away? (See Romans 11:25).

It just appears to me that there are issues that you cannot say are already, historically fulfilled.

Now, there are lots that I wouldn't argue against. But there are just a lot of things in the Scripture that seem to me have a future implication to them. That's why I'm a futurist and not a preterist. And there are a lot of other reasons as well.

Let me kind of round out our discussion today by talking about what are the implications for you if you think the Book of Revelation is already past? What are the implications of the preterist belief?

Well, one of them comes right out of Matthew 24--You know, those who believe that Christ has already come back in A.D. 70, that's the preterist belief, they can hardly fulfill the Lord's command to keep watching until He comes because that would have to had occurred before A.D. 70. You and I can't keep watching today for the Lord's return if the Lord has already returned.

So, I'm not sure how I should deal with all of the passages of Scripture that tell me to keep watching for the Lord's return.

My personal opinion is that preterism undermines the literal meaning of the Bible that there is a past, there is a present and there is a future. Preterists are following, I think, a very dangerous path. It's the path that liberalists followed a generation ago.

I'm not suggesting that all preterists are liberal. They are not. But the path they follow in interpreting Scripture, that you don't take these things literally, that you don't take anything in Revelation literally, is the same path that the liberals followed when they said, "Oh, and by the way, you don't take the creation literally; you don't take the flood literally; you don't take the virgin birth of Christ literally."

Preterists don't say that. But that's the same path that led liberals to say that. And that concerns me about the preterist's belief.

The second thing I notice about preterism is I think it distorts the promise of the coming of the Lord.

To say that Jesus came back in the clouds in A.D. 70; no one saw it and no one reported it in the Scripture, I think, denies or distorts certainly, what the whole intent of the return of the Lord is.

See, what we are left with here on earth is we don't have any real hope of any divine intervention. And, basically, the preterists say we have to kind of work this out for ourselves. But that takes away my hope in a future resurrection; it takes away my hope in what God is going to do in the future.

The preterist would say to me, "It's our job to bring in the Kingdom now." But how do you bring in a Kingdom without a King? And if there's no King in that Kingdom, what makes us think it's a Kingdom worth living in?

That troubles me about the preterist belief. I think preterism unnecessarily diminishes the hope of the believer. It unnecessarily takes away your hope in future events in which God will make right what is wrong.

See, in fact, I think preterism limits every biblical command that is related to the return of Christ. If the return of Christ has already happened, A.D. 70, then every command in Scripture that relates to that return has already happened. It has to have.

Now, let me suggest what some of those are. You know that phrase "until He comes?" Every time that phrase is used in the Bible, if you're a preterist, you have to believe that phrase is no longer important to you because He's already come.

So, for example, we are to celebrate the Lord's Table; we are to have Communion; we are to do the Communion service, have the Eucharist. We are to do that, and we show forth the Lord's death until He comes. Why do we have Communion today if He's already come? There's a problem there.

Shall we stop celebrating the Lord's Table simply because we believe He came in A.D. 70? I don't see preterists doing that. I think that's a real problem.

You know right after Jesus predicted the destruction of the temple, the disciples said to Him, "When will all this happen? What will be the sign of Your coming and the end of the age?" (See Matthew 24:2-3). I think that's a legitimate question.

The Scripture gives us, then, signs that Jesus will come. And if those signs come, what are those signs? And if Jesus has already come, how do we view those signs in retrospect? See, we don't have any biblical account that shows us those signs all took place.

Will Christ return literally at the Battle of Armageddon? Preterists would say, "No." The Futurist would say, "Yes."

Will Christ destroy Satan? The preterist would say, "He already has." The futurist would say, "I look around me, and it doesn't appear that He already has."

Now, tomorrow we're going to talk about the futurist view of these events of Revelation. As I said, I have some questions about Futurism, too, like I have questions about preterism.

There are other ways to interpret Scripture, but these seem to be the two major ways that we look at the Book of Revelation.

Today we have seen how preterists view it, and I've asked some questions. Tomorrow we're going to see how futurists view it.

Tami Weissert: This is Back to the Bible with Bible teacher, Woodrow Kroll. HI, I'm Tami Weissert.

Wood, we're looking at one way to interpret the Book of Revelation and you explained it as preterism. When it comes to interpreting Revelation, doesn't it ultimately come down to each individual and the Holy Spirit anyway?

Woodrow Kroll: Interpretation always comes down to the individual, but let's remember: Two opposing views of interpretation can't both be right. That's why I always counsel people to be open to the possibility that they may be wrong. Look, if when we get to heaven, I find out that the Book of Revelation isn't exactly to be understood as I interpreted it, I don't think it's going to be the end of eternity for me.

We hold interpretive views of Scripture based on our understanding with the help of the Holy Spirit. Sometimes our understanding is just plain wrong. And that's why we always need to submit our interpretation to the guidance of the Holy Spirit of God.

Tami Weissert: Well, I just want everyone to know that Dr. Kroll has a very helpful study guide available called Revelation: The Glorified Christ. There are several things you'll really appreciate about the study guide. First of all, it includes the full text of Revelation so you have everything you need right in the book. There are 14 studies and each one full of background detail and helpful insights along with questions and suggestions to help you apply what you've learned.

Again it's called Revelation: The Glorified Christ and it's available right now. We're also taking orders for our Journey Through Revelation CD series. So give us a call to ask about both of these products. Then place your order today. Here's our phone number. It's 1-800-759-2425.

Well, Wood, we've talked about the past view of Revelation and tomorrow we look at the futurist view of Revelation. So should we expect a number of varying interpretations with the futurist view as we saw with preterism?

Woodrow Kroll: Always! You get four Christians in a theological discussion, you're easily going to have eight opinions, and that's true of the futurist view of Bible prophecy as well. Tomorrow, we're going to talk about premillennialism. We're going to talk about the pre-Trib position, the mid-Trib, the post-Trib. I mean there are just an infinite variety of ways to understand the future. All of that is tomorrow as we continue our study of the Book of Revelation.

By the way, did you know that you can donate to this Bible teaching ministry on your cell phone? Amazing, isn't it? Find out how you can do that on our web site at backtothebible.org.

Thanks for dropping by today. God bless you. I'm Woodrow Kroll. My prayer for you is that you would have a good and godly day, for of what lasting value is a good day if it's not also a godly day?

Scripture used in today's program was based on the New King James Version of the Bible.