Elisabeth Elliot: No mother who has half a brain is ever going to say that motherhood is not sacrifice. Of course, it's sacrifice, but what are the rewards?

Lisa Barry: Now that I have three children, I often wonder what I did with my free time before I had kids. I guess the time was spent selfishly. But now that so much of my day is spent on family, I hope it's going to be a lifelong pattern of sacrifice for others and not just temporary. Today Elisabeth Elliot and her friend Gayle Sommers finish up this series on motherhood with a look at where we'll find our fulfillment. Can we find it in our families, and how does God fit into all this? We'll find out next on Gateway To Joy.

Elisabeth Elliot: "You are loved with an everlasting love." That's what the Bible says, "and underneath are the everlasting arms." This is your friend, Elisabeth Elliot, talking again today with my friend, Gayle Sommers. Gayle, we have been talking about what can become a very controversial subject--the matter of women working. And in our last discussion, it was about what a woman is to do when her husband insists upon her going to work--and she wants to be submissive to her husband and also obedient to God--and the two things don't seem to work together very well.

When we talk about this controversy, we realize that there are opposite views on all controversial topics. Some weeks ago I asked you if you would do me the huge favor of answering a letter that I really didn't feel qualified to answer nearly as well as I thought you were. It was a letter from a lady who was very concerned about women working when they have children, and the last part of your letter I would like to read.

You said this, "When Christians whom we respect take opposite views on controversial topics, it is worth figuring out what we believe, or whether we should ever run the risk of rejection for holding an unpopular view. I am encouraging you not to lose heart. We do have an obligation to put love above all things as 1 Corinthians 13, but to put something above doesn't mean that we erase everything below.

"We have a special responsibility to speak the truth in love, but we can't forget about the truth part simply because we are trying to get the love part right. As long as you can say truly before God that you are willing to love those who differ from you, you can differ from them with a clear conscience. Two opposite points of view cannot both be right, and sometimes we may have to wait until we get to heaven to find out who had the truth on certain subjects. But if we are convinced of what the scriptures are very clear about, we can defend our position in a style which imparts grace to those who hear us."

Now I loved the last phrase, Gayle. What do you mean by "a style which imparts grace to those who hear us"?

Gayle Sommers: Okay. I'm glad you asked that because I do feel very strongly about this. I would hate to have come here and talked to you on this issue without really touching on that. What I have in mind there is that we are bound to come across people who have different opinions about the issues, the issue of working mothers, let's say.

I certainly have met lots of women who think it is perfectly fine to put children in daycare, for women to have careers. Not only is it fine, but it is the right thing to do and something to really aim for. I do feel with them, and I feel it very strongly. What I want to do is jump up and say, "No." And I want to start listing all of the reasons why it is bad.

I really don't think that that is the kind of approach that imparts grace to those who hear, because what we get ourselves into is a combative stance right away. So that if I go at that woman with all of my reasons, she will come back at me with all of her reasons. Instead of having an exchange of grace--in which what I have to say may actually give her the grace to do the right thing--we have something very different, a combative, argumentative encounter in which both of us have our reputations or appearances at stake.

So that what I try to do when I find a woman who has views which are different from mine--I try to talk about the issues of child rearing and the influence of daycare in such a way that staying at home with the children will appear to be a winsome thing, will be an attractive thing to her. That she will not feel that I am coming to her to argue her out about something; rather, she will feel that I am coming to her and presenting her with something wonderful--to reach out and take hold of. And I did actually. I have to give this testimony.

This actually did happen to me with a friend of mine who has worked for 10 years and had a baby, and was considering putting the baby in child care at the age of three months and going back to work. She was a teacher. I stood in her kitchen with her and talked about it. And we were talking about the baby and what her plans were, and she said almost without flinching, "I'm going to put him in daycare. I have to go back to work. We can't afford for me not to." So, I told her what I could about what I knew about nurturing children, how it is with children--that you have to be there and you have to be available to them. I didn't say it in a way to try to convince her. I was just talking about raising children and being at home with the children.

Well, she stopped and she looked at the baby and she said, "I don't really want to go back to work"--which floored me--because she had said she had wanted to put the child in daycare without even flinching. She said, "I can't even stand to even be in a different room from this baby." And she burst into tears. I held her and I hugged her, and I said, "Something can be worked out. Something can happen here. God can do something. And I will help baby-sit that child if you do have to go back to work."

I wanted her to know that I was not standing there as her accuser. I was on her side and the side of the child. I would make myself available. I would take that baby into my house and baby-sit him, which would be much better than putting him into a daycare center. I could see the load fall off of her back when she thought that if she actually did have to go back to work, that she could at least put that baby in my care.

As it turned out, her husband also got a better paying job and they had to leave the state for him to get his better paying job, but she is at home with that child. She didn't have to go back to work.

That is my idea of, that is my goal let's say (I probably don't pull it off very well all the time), but I would want a woman who maybe has convinced herself that she needs to go back to work or wants to go back to work--when she hears what we have to say, would not feel condemned and stricken, because I don't think that helps her to do what she has to do. I think it puts her in a wrong frame of mind. I would rather see what we have to say to her suggest that this is something good that she could reach out for, and that God is here to help her to do it and will provide the grace; and that's what I mean by imparting grace.

Elisabeth Elliot: Well, I think what you have said fits in so very beautifully with the name of this radio program. Every now and then I think I should explain what Gateway to Joy is supposed to mean and what my closing line, which I don't always use (but very often use) means. It may not make sense to some people to say, "Every experience, if offered to Jesus, can be your gateway to joy."

This has really been a crucial lesson in my own life, where the most impossible thing, when offered to Jesus, have become a gateway to joy. Because, at that point God is (may I say) given the privilege, given permission, to step into my impossible situation and show me what He can do. The place where I find myself the most helpless is exactly the place where God wants to be my helper and my refuge. And one of the things that I feel so sad about when I talk to women is that their expectations have been shaped so largely by the world.

You remember what Paul said in Romans 12? Don't let the world squeeze you into its own mold. It is a constant battle, that they should not be squeezed. That's why I am so grateful for this program--the opportunity to reach out to many women who listen to me in their kitchen, or whatever. And I know that there are women who are listening to me driving to work, and I hope that some of those women who are driving to work are going to be able to quit driving to work because you and I have been able to lodge in their consciousness a different expectation from that which the world has given them--and they didn't even know that it came from the world. Don't you think that's true?

Gayle Sommers: Exactly. Yes.

Elisabeth Elliot: And the whole idea of this sacrifice of motherhood. To the world, the word "sacrifice" connotes loss, and deprivation and something odious. To a Christian, the word "sacrifice" means something offered, something given back to God. It's a privilege. It's a joy, and no mother who has half a brain is ever going to say that motherhood is not sacrifice. Of course, it is sacrifice, but what are the rewards? What are they, Gayle?

Gayle Sommers: The rewards are contentment in knowing that you are doing what God wants you to do, and fulfillment and joy.

Elisabeth Elliot: You find joy in being a mother?

Gayle Sommers: I find joy.

Elisabeth Elliot: Even though you said that you were not cut out to be a mother?

Gayle Sommers: That drives me wild. I go crazy, but I find joy and contentment in doing what I'm doing. And I feel as if it is a tremendous gift from God that I even have children, that I should be given three children to care for and to enjoy. That is a tremendous gift. Although they do drive me crazy, I feel joy.

Elisabeth Elliot: You have about 40 seconds in which to encourage every mother out there who is listening to you now. What would you say to her about her job?

Gayle Sommers: Well if you are a mother like I am--and not all mothers are like me. Some do really find it easy and a "happy go." But if you are like me, who finds each day a challenge and who asks the question almost every day, "will I get through this day, will I actually make it"--I would encourage you to do what I do, and what I find is the most satisfying thing. And that is to lift it up to God and say, "Of all the things that I could be doing, this is what I am doing. This is what you want me to do, and I trust You to make it right for my children and for me."

Lisa Barry: Thanks, Gayle, for all of your great insight these last two weeks. You've reminded us all that being with our families is one of the best gifts we could give them. I'm sure these last two weeks with Gayle Sommers have given you new inspiration to give your best to your husband and your children. And I hope it's clear to you as you listen each day that we at Gateway To Joy are interested in changed lives. When Christ has complete control over a life, things get done. Eternal things, important things, and raising a family is one of those.

If you draw strength from this program, then I pray that you'll do two things. First, I hope that you'll tell your friends about Gateway To Joy. Tell them what you've been learning and what a difference it's made in your life. Second, I hope that you'll want to become a part of a team that invests financially in this program. With everyone doing a little bit, the job gets done. And there's so much work to do. Can we count on you? Here's our address:

Gateway To Joy, Box 82500, Lincoln, Nebraska 68501. Or, toll-free 1-800-759-4JOY. That's 1-800-759-4569. On the Web, we're at gatewaytojoy.org.

Today's program has been a production of Back to the Bible. Monday, Elisabeth begins a series about dating. Is it necessary? Find out the next time we meet for Gateway To Joy.