Lisa Barry: When we think of a woman going back to work after her baby is born, most of us assume it's her idea, but what if she's the one who wants to stay home and her husband insists she go back to work? If she's convinced that God wants her to stay home, does that overrule her husband's wishes? Today on Gateway To Joy, Elisabeth Elliot welcomes back her friend Gayle Sommers, and they'll discuss this very delicate issue. If you're someone who has a difference of opinion with your husband with regard to working outside the home, I hope you'll plan to stay tuned for an interesting perspective. It's coming up next on Gateway To Joy. Here's Elisabeth.

Elisabeth Elliot: "You are loved with an everlasting love." That's what the Bible says, "and underneath are the everlasting arms." This is your friend, Elisabeth Elliot, talking today with my guest, Gayle Sommers, the mother of three children and also a part time teacher at Gordon College in Wenham, Massachusetts.

Gayle, one of the most knotty problems that women bring to me every once and a while is the question of what to do if she feels very strongly that God's Word tells her to stay home and take care of her children, and her husband feels very strongly that she ought to be out working. Now, before you give me your answer, I want to say that I hope--I hope with all my heart--that there are a lot of men out there listening to this program. It comes on early in the morning here in Boston, so perhaps there are some men listening.

We do get quite a bit of mail from men, and we are very grateful for that, and are glad to know that it's not limited entirely to women. But very often I think that men are just plain ignorant of what the Bible does say. It has never crossed their screen that there could be another view to these things. And if he is a Christian husband, then surely he would be willing to listen to you, a Christian woman, who has done some serious thinking on these matters. Tell us what God says about it. If he is not a Christian, there are some very strong reasons that you have been giving us as to why women ought to stay home. So, if a woman is in this very difficult position of wanting to be submissive to her husband, and at the same time wanting to obey what she sees to be a scriptural pattern--what should she do?

Gayle Sommers: Well, it is a difficult problem and I have known women who have been in exactly the situation you have described. It's never easy. I think that the first thing that needs to be said is that if we are going to want to live our lives as godly women, we are going to have to acknowledge that the Scripture does teach that a wife has the role of submission to her husband. There is such a thing as submission in marriage. I know that lots of people are trying to do away with it and redefine it. I'm not really impressed with anything that I've seen so far to get rid of it. I think it is still there.

You have to do a lot of fancy footwork around the Apostle Paul's writing to avoid the fact that the man is the head of the woman, and the woman is to submit to her husband. So, that's the first thing that I want to say. Now husbands, if husbands are Christian and they are interested in what the Scripture says, then I think that they ought to be willing (should be willing) to listen to their wives on the subject--to listen carefully, to listen considerately.

Think about that passage in 1 Peter where Peter says, "Husbands, live considerately with your wives." I think part of consideration is listening--really listening to what the woman says, listening to her reservations, listening to what she thinks the Scripture teaches, listening to what she says about the children. And be willing to be informed by that, as well as the checkbook when he looks at the balance in the checkbook and he looks at all the bills that have to be paid.

If he's thinking that really she has to go out to work for financial reasons, which is usually the reason (a financial one), if he would be as willing to listen to what his wife has to say as he is to look at the checkbook and at all the bills that are due, then he could perhaps make a decision that would take into consideration all that he sees in front of him as his responsibility. He is responsible to be the head of the home. He's responsible for the welfare of the family.

If he thinks that the physical welfare of the family is at stake unless there is more money, then that is a concern for him--and a legitimate one, but he is also to be considerate of his wife and to listen to what she has to say, to receive what she has to say and to make a decision on that basis. One would hope that a husband could make a decision that would somehow hold everything together--that he could be responsible in all of his duties as the head of the home, keeping it solvent and physically fit; also, as the head of his wife, living considerately with her--being her husband and not making her do that which she really doesn't want to do.

Elisabeth Elliot: Do you think that submission, obviously you don't think that the word "submission"--that terrible "S" word that nobody can stand--that does not necessarily mean keeping your mouth shut all the time and never opening your mouth to present a case to your husband if you feel that he is making a mistake.

Gayle Sommers: Right. I can explain, I can give an example from our marriage of how submission works, because obviously I have been on this program for a while and I am anything but a quiet, submissive person. I have a lot to say, and my husband--unfortunately--is the one who has to listen to most of it.

But in our family, the way it works is that when we have a decision that has to be made, he will gladly listen to everything that I have to say; and if he has a contrary opinion, he will tell me what it is. If I have more things to say, I can say what I have to say. We discuss it completely, and I get a chance to say everything that I want to say on the subject, then a decision has to be made. There have been very few times in our married life (I can think of maybe five, maybe, no more than five) in which my husband has had to say, "A decision has to be made. You think that way and I think this way. The buck stops with me. I've got to make the decision and I say that we are going to do this."

And I have had to submit in that I have had to go in a way that I would perhaps not have chosen. I can think of it most clearly when we bought the house that we live in now. I did not want to buy a house. I didn't want to buy any house, and I didn't want to buy that house--and I told him a lot. He thought that the house was an excellent deal, that it would be very good for our family. So, even though I frothed and foamed and told him that I was nervous, I didn't think it was going to go, we didn't have enough money--my husband said, "We are going to buy the house." We bought the house and it was the best investment that we have ever made.

We are still happy living in that house and I can't imagine what would have happened to us if we had not bought the house. My husband made the right decision and I agreed to it--and it was comfortable--I was scared. I couldn't sleep for six weeks after he made the decision, but he had to make it and I knew that I had to let him make it. So, there's lots of give and take, and it has never been the case for us that my husband will make a decision unilaterally without consulting me. He respects me.

Elisabeth Elliot: I'm so glad that you told us that story Gayle, because for you men who are listening I think it is very easy for men to be cowed by their wives, especially if they are married to people like you and me.

Gayle Sommers: Exactly.

Elisabeth Elliot: And I happen to know that your husband, like my husband, is younger than you are. My husband is younger than I am, and so they would have various reasons for perhaps capitulating when God has given them the responsibility--as you say, that stops at their desk. So, in obedience to God, those men have got to take that final responsibility. And they do it in trusting God and in praying through the thing. And I'm sure you and Gary pray about things together as Lars and I do--but the final responsibility, and the risks and all the blame that is going to come if the decision is wrong, has got to rest on that man.

That is a tough responsibility for any man to take, and I feel for them. I know that I have made it very hard for my husband sometimes, because I felt like he was making a serious mistake. Now, what about the poor lady who says, "My husband won't listen to a word I say."

Gayle Sommers: And there are women like that, whose husbands don't listen to anything they say. So, in that situation, I would say that the woman is unavoidably responsible to be submissive to her husband.

If the issue is, let's say, working--if he really wants her to work and she doesn't want to work, I would say that she would need to get out and get a job if that's really what her husband is insisting on. But I would also want to say at the same time that the woman should be praying and asking God to do something. I don't know what God could do; God could do lots of things--but to not feel as if that's the end of it right there.

She feels as if she should be home with the children and that working is not the best thing, but her husband wants her to do it. Then as the obedient and submissive wife--she does it, but she is asking all the while that God would somehow sort the thing out. And I have seen God do it, actually.

Elisabeth Elliot: I have, too. I have heard some wonderful stories of God absolutely changing a man's mind.

Gayle Sommers: Right.

Elisabeth Elliot: And that was an answer that the woman could hardly even believe could ever happen--something that her faith was not great enough for. She just said, "Lord, if you have another answer, please do it." And I know one wonderful story of a woman who had an opportunity to pray and fast for three days while her husband was gone, and she prayed specifically that the Lord would change his mind if she was right. She said, "Lord, I think I'm right on this. I think he's wrong. If he's wrong, Lord, please change his mind."

And that man came back and out of the blue he said, "Honey, we have got to figure out a way for you to stay at home and take care of the children, instead of going to work." Well Gayle, you have so many more wonderful things to say. I wish we had loads more time, but I'm afraid we are going to have to stop with this.

It is Gayle Sommers that you've been listening to. She's from Essex, Massachusetts, and is married to Gary Sommers and she is the mother of three young children. She's obviously a very articulate young woman and I'm grateful to you for coming to be with us. And I just want to end this program by emphasizing to any of you men who have been listening, if you are the fathers of young children, fathers of any age of children let's say up to 20 or so (if your children have left home I'm not talking to you right this moment). But if you have children and your wife is working, may I urge you to consider the things you have heard here and do anything you can possibly do to enable your wife to stay at home. There are sacrifices, obviously, which need to be made. Sometimes it might mean selling the house--in the case I was speaking of before, where the man said, "We need to think of a way to enable you to stay home," it involved selling the house.

To their utter amazement, they were able to find another house with exactly the same square footage for about half the price that they were paying; and so, the wife was able to stay home. I don't know what God's answer is for you women or for you men, but I would urge you to seek God's answer.

Lisa Barry: If you're struggling with pleasing your husband and taking care of your children, don't get discouraged. God knows all about the situation and He will hear your prayers for wisdom and direction. There have been times when I was tempted to argue with my husband over an issue, but instead brought it to the Lord and left the result to Him. And what's truly amazing is that within a few days, usually, either I saw the situation in a totally different light or my husband changed his mind. So whatever your situation, take it to the Lord in prayer.

Well, if you're frantically wondering what to get for a mother for Mother's Day, here's my suggestion. Our gift packet contains many helpful resources for a variety of needs. First, we've included this two-week tape series "Called to be Mothers." Next, we added the new book Mountain Breezes, which is a generous compilation of Amy Carmichael's poetry. On top of that, we've thrown in a study journal, four of Elisabeth Elliot's greeting cards and two short readings that I know you'll like. The cost for the packet is $30. To order, simply send that amount along with a letter to:

Gateway To Joy, Box 82500, Lincoln, Nebraska 68501. If you'd like to send a personal note, you can send it to that same address. You can also call toll-free 1-800-759-4JOY. That's 1-800-759-4569. Our Web address is gatewaytojoy.org.

Today's program has been a production of Back to the Bible. Tomorrow Elisabeth and Gayle talk about how to make ends meet when a mother stays at home. Find out more next time on Gateway To Joy.