Lisa Barry: The other day, when I was out shopping, I saw lots of mothers and children meandering around the mall. Some groups had children running way ahead while the parents shouted helplessly for them to come back. But I also noticed families where the children never left their parents' side and their conduct was exemplary. What was the one family doing that the other missed?

Well, if you could use some guidance in this area of child rearing, then I invite you to hear what Elisabeth Elliot has to say on the subject. Her goal is to illumine what the Scripture says about parental discipline so you don't have to rely on popular opinion to make your decision. And now, I'd recommend getting paper and pencil so you're able to jot down some important keys to discipline, next on Gateway To Joy.

Elisabeth Elliot: "You are loved with an everlasting love." That's what the Bible says, "and underneath are the everlasting arms." This is your friend, Elisabeth Elliot, talking with you again today on the subject of mothering.

I have a wonderful letter from the mother of five children, and I just can't resist sharing this with you. I know that many of you feel that Elisabeth Elliot has some strange and peculiar opinions and undoubtedly you are right. But if you hear the testimonies of young mothers who are where you are, maybe you will find it more sympathetic or more relevant to your particular need. So here's one from a young mother:

"I have five children, ages nine, seven, five, two, and six and a half months. Within the last six-and-a-half months we have gone through my husband's job change, a promotion which required moving to a new area; the birth of our last child; the selling of our home; the moving to a rental; and going through the process of starting to build a new house. My youngest has gone through numerous ear infections and is up anywhere from three to eight times a night on a regular basis. I have not had an entire night's sleep since his birth. We, my husband and I, have gone through some very serious conflicts through all this. And within the last two-and-a-half weeks all but the baby have had chicken pox."

Do you want me to read that list again? Well, I don't think I will. But doesn't that just make your heart go out to this woman? Talk about stresses. All this, and within the last two and a half weeks everybody but the baby have had chicken pox, which means six out of seven people have had chicken pox.

"The stress, physically and mentally, has been more than I have ever felt before, and yet" and this is the reason I am reading the letter "the Lord has been with me through it all. I have never experienced His peace and strength as much as now. It is truly through the trials in life and the revealing of our own weaknesses that we realize the magnitude of His love and strength."

What a testimony. Isn't that tremendous? God has said, "My strength is made perfect in your weakness" (2 Cor. 12:9). And here's a testimony of a modern, contemporary mother who has found exactly that to be true. God is always true to His promises. And she puts a P.S. "We're also homeschoolers." So, in addition to all those other things that she mentioned, she's got her hands full with homeschooling, I suppose, at least three children if they are ages nine, seven and five.

Then another letter, asking me to clarify the things that I said before on the subject of spanking. And although I've talked about this a number of times, I know that I need to repeat it several times because there is the potential for a lot of very serious misunderstanding on this subject. This lady writes, from B.C.:

"I enjoy listening to your program. I can hardly believe that there is such a program on the radio today that proclaims what modest apparel is, what submission is, and all those distasteful necessities. Really, when a person's heart is right with God and their relationship with their husband is right, it isn't so distasteful.

"What prompted me to write to you is this. You state that a person should not childproof their home when children come along, and that they should leave the Royal Doulton figurines out, etc. Well, I agree and disagree at the same time. I agree that a home should not be childproofed, because a child does need to learn to keep hands off when told. On the other hand, I am not going to put myself through the pressure of having my expensive goodies where he can get his hands on them and I might jump on him because of my concerns, when he may have no intent to touch."

May I just insert here that I'm really not sure that I did say that you should leave the Royal Doulton figurines out. What I usually say is, put something on the coffee table that you really don't want him to touch, but I would not put my Royal Doulton figurines. Don't put something that's worth a few hundred dollars on the coffee table, because children are disobedient at times, aren't they? Even while you are in the process of training them. But do put something there about which you have to say no, so that when you go to Grandma's house he will know that no means no. She goes on to say:

"Please tell me if I am missing something here. I have a 13-month-old boy. He knows what 'no' means, and he generally listens. The things I am most concerned about are out of his reach, but there are other things he is not to play with. Because of a one-year-old's desire to learn, I will let him touch them but not move them. Since touching only adds a minimum amount of satisfaction, he does move them and of course gets a thump on the hand. He leaves everything alone now most of the time. Because he knows I mean no when I say it, he is fine when we go to other people's houses. I try to treat this the same way I would have if I had had my expensive knickknacks out. Am I just lucky that things worked out, or perhaps other mothers can learn from this?"

Well, I would commend her for teaching him what "no" means. I am not sure that a thump on the hand is going to make much of an impact on a 13-month-old boy, but sometimes we do need to spank them. And by spanking, I mean something that does hurt enough to make them cry.

So, in response to a letter from a mother who is confused about spanking a child--because she felt that surely I was talking about child abuse--I do want to help all of you who may have misunderstood me or may be very dubious about the wisdom of spanking at all, to just give you a few principles that I really think are sound. And my idea about spanking is also based on Scripture. The Book of Proverbs speaks of the use of a rod.

First of all, it's very important that you make a distinction in your mind between hitting and spanking. A loving parent never hits a child. But a parent who does not spank, the Bible says, hates his child (Prov. 13:24). The Bible doesn't use the word spank, of course. Maybe it does in some of the modern translations, but the ones I am familiar with refer to the use of the rod. And the father who does not use the rod on his disobedient son hates that child.

Discipline begins almost from birth. In the first days, the child learns the sound of the mother's voice, the feel of her arms. Very soon it learns to distinguish tones. A firm "No, Mandy, it's not time to cry now. I want you to go to sleep" will be understood long before the child can say her first word. Does that sound preposterous to you? Well, the keys to discipline are these. I want to give you six of them. If you've got a pencil and paper, I'll try to give them to you so that you can write them down.

Number one, eye contact. Make sure you have the child's attention. Speak her name clearly and firmly and look her straight in the eyes. Just write down "eye contact" for that one.

Number two, maintain a calm normal tone of voice. A calm, normal tone of voice--the minute you raise your voice, the minute you start screaming at your child, you are losing his attention. It's like the boy who "cried wolf." You scream all the time, you get into the habit of screaming, and the child gets in the habit of tuning you out.

Number three, tell her once. "Mandy, I want you to sit down. If you do not obey me, I'm going to use this..." whatever--ruler, wooden spoon, paint stirrer, thin switch. Just a little swat on the little bare legs, enough to make the little child cry, that is a measured, controlled bit of pain administered by a loving parent who has not gotten angry. Now you see, if you repeat the command you're going to get angry yourself, and then you'll be tempted to abuse the child. So the third rule is tell her once.

The fourth is, if she disobeys use it at once. Use whatever instrument you've decided to use. Take her hand, hold it open, give one hard spank or two--only enough to make her cry, not a beating.

Number five, take her in your arms. Don't omit this part. Take her in your arms after the spanking, tell her you love her and that's why you must spank, so that she will learn what it means to obey. Explain that by choosing to disobey, she chose a spanking.

Number six, be consistent. It's confusing for a child if you threaten a spanking and you don't give it. But be careful to distinguish between outright disobedience, which is defiance of your clear instruction, and be sure you know that the child understood what you said. You're being very unjust if you didn't give the child a clear instruction. Be careful to distinguish between outright disobedience and childish faults such as spilling milk or sprinkling your face powder all over the rug. You did not instruct her not to spill milk or sprinkle powder. And we do all make mistakes. We spill milk, too. But if she deliberately pours her milk on the floor in defiance, spank her.

If you raise your voice or speak twice or five times, you are training her not to pay attention when you speak normally or when you speak the first time. If you're consistent in speaking once and then administering the punishment, Mandy will soon learn that you mean exactly what you say. She will learn to come when called. Don't run after her, unless, of course, she is running into real danger, and that's an exception. If she's running out into the street, of course, you don't test whether or not she will obey the word. You've got to physically remove her from real danger. But otherwise, don't go running after her. The child must learn to come. She will learn to come when called, or to put things down and to sit down in her highchair.

But a little child does not understand discipline or obedience except when associated with a measure of pain. You can look up Proverbs 22:15 and Proverbs 23:13,14.

The Lord will help you as you seek to train your child under His authority. Keep on your knees.

Lisa Barry: That's an excellent point! If you question whether you're disciplining out of anger or out of love, prayer is great at separating the two.

You know, I was raised in a loving home. I'm so thankful for the parents that God gave me. But even so, there are things that I want to do a little bit differently. And one book that I've learned so much from is The Shaping of a Christian Family. The reason I like it is because it reads like a mini-movie. Elisabeth has put stories from her own home growing up and I can visualize some of the principles at work in my own home. The other thing I like about the book is that the ideas have been proven out in real life, not just somebody's ideas that have never been tested. You'll love this book.

We're making The Shaping of a Christian Family available to you today when you request it, and the suggested donation for that is $13. And for a limited time, we'd like to send out a complimentary copy of a beautiful prayer that Elisabeth is sharing during this series. It's called "Father, Our Children Keep" and it's yours to keep when you call to request it. Here's the number.

Call toll-free, 1-800-759-4JOY. That's 1-800-759-4569. If you prefer to write, our mailing address is:

Gateway To Joy, Box 82500, Lincoln, NE 68501. Our Web address is gatewaytojoy.org. Today's program has been a production of Back to the Bible, but I'd like to thank you for listening and praying.

Well, if you're a mom at home, do you ever wonder if you should be doing more spiritual work outside the home? Elisabeth has the answer to that tomorrow, so make it a point to join us for the next Gateway To Joy.