Lisa Barry: What comes to your mind when you think about an older woman teaching a younger woman about the important issues of life? I imagine a portly woman in her seventies with a smile of wisdom on her face. I imagine a frazzled mother like me, drawing strength from her quiet confidence.

But is that really what's taking place out there? It sounds great, but the truth is it's just not happening as much as you'd think. Elisabeth Elliot and Donna Otto continue their discussion today about mentoring and what seems to be holding things up. That's coming up next on this Wednesday edition of Gateway To Joy.

Elisabeth Elliot: "You are loved with an everlasting love." That's what the Bible says. "And underneath are the everlasting arms." This is your friend Elisabeth Elliot, talking with my friend, Donna Otto, author of several books. Our particular concern this week is the older women teaching the younger women, as the Apostle Paul taught the young pastor named Titus that he should teach to the younger women.

Donna, a couple of times when I've been speaking, I have asked for a show of hands of the older women who would be willing to try to do what you and I are talking about this week-to just be there for the younger women. I find that there's a great deal of timidity, because their first reaction is, "Well, I wouldn't know what to do." You're going to help us with that. But when I have tried to explain just what I mean by that-I'm not saying you have to write a book. You don't have to start a Bible class. You don't have to start a meeting in your church. God help us, the last thing we need is another meeting in the church.

But would you be willing to just be there? If a younger woman, for example, wants to call up and say, "How do I potty train a two-year-old?" would you know what to say? Now of course, many of you older women would know what to say. So there are some hands that go up when I say that.

Then I say, "Often the older women say to me, 'The younger women don't want to listen to us.'" But I have heard a lot of younger women who say they would. So may we have a show of hands today, "How many of you younger women in the audience would be willing to take the advice of an older woman?" Many hands will go up. So we have a permanent standoff in our imagination. The older women are not available; the younger women don't want to hear the advice. There are those in both categories that can be helped by your message. Please carry on.

Donna Otto: Well, you're absolutely right. Yes! I think it's a matter of lack of communication and confusion. It's a simple explanation for a very complicated situation. I too ask some of those questions. One time I was ending a question-and-answer period and I said, "Let me ask you a question. Why would you like to have an older woman in your life?"

A young woman just shot up from her seat. I knew that she stood up before she even realized that she stood up, and now she was going to have to speak. Her lip was quivering. She shook for a second and then she said in a very clear tone, "I need someone to tell me that Jennifer, my three-old-year, will not always be wetting her pants."

She sat down and the audience burst into giggles. I felt the sense of holiness when she said that. I thought that a holy hush came into my heart, because I thought, "Yes, Lord. That's the answer. That is really the answer. That is what this is all about. It isn't any more difficult than that." It's easy to say to an audience, "Could you, as an older woman, tell someone that?" Then to say, "What is an older woman?" Well, an older woman is someone who is past potty training, to a young woman who has a brand-new baby.

But I think what happens is we get caught up with teaching and the techniques. Let me first say that young women in our country today are the most educated young women that have ever walked the face of the earth. That is an astounding fact. And it is a fact that would frighten an older women, who is in her sixties or seventies or eighties, who has a seventh-grade education. I think young women today, who are that formally educated, do tend to make women who are less educated feel as if they are not as bright. In book learning, perhaps they're not. So I think we need to acknowledge that these women are educated in a sense of formal education.

A second thing is that the young woman has to be willing. I believe the Scripture is dedicated to the older woman. I believe the mandate is there and it is her call to go out and find a young woman. However, I acknowledge that, for these reasons, an older woman may not be willing to knock on the door of someone's life or home and say, "Here I am." So young women, be open. You may be the most educated women that ever walked the face of the earth, but be open to reaching out to an older woman that God may send.

Then to the older women, I would say, "Don't get these terms, which we banter about, confused. Disciple. Discipling. Discipleship." Someone may come to you and only ask that you be an older woman in their life and she may use the word "disciple" and you may say, "I'm not a disciple." We think of Christ, who is teaching us the truth of the Scripture or opening God's Word and imparting knowledge-disciple.

Or the word "mentor." Mentor is not a word found in the Scripture. It is a concept certainly we see in the Scripture in many people's lives. Elijah and Elisha. Jethro and Moses. Titus and Paul. There are many, many illustrations. But the word "mentor" is actually-"mentor" was a man's name. In the epic poem by Homer, the Odyssey, Mentor was Odysseus' friend. When Odysseus went off to fight in the Trojan War, he left his child at home with Mentor.

Twenty-one years later, when he came back-I don't know how long it takes to fight a war and to return, but twenty-one years later, history records that he came home. His child of course was twenty-one years old. Mentor, his coveted friend, his trusted friend, had raised his child. So we take this man's name and convert it to an action. We mentor. We teach what we know. We share our lives. We talk about life.

Then of course, the term "older woman," which is the term the Bible uses. Don't be afraid of it. I say to older women, "Don't be afraid of it. Praise God for it. The Scripture very clearly tells me that gray hair is a shining glory of righteousness. Why do I want to cover it? Why do I want to steward my time by spending the time and money it takes to cover it?" Of course, I'm sitting across from my dear friend, and her full head of gray hair, which has been one more thing that you have encouraged me with. I don't know if I'll ever be grayheaded, it's just sort of coming in so slowly. But don't be afraid of that old age. Don't let the world say to you what the world says, and that old is not good.

Elisabeth Elliot: Well, people are sometimes shocked, Donna, when I tell my age from the platform. And I think, "Well, I might as tell them that I'm this old, because otherwise they might think I'm ten years older than that." Who do we think we're kidding, if we get facelifts and do hair coloring and all these things that cost a lot of money? Facelifts cost a lot of money. A friend of mine has just recently gone through that. I just think it is so silly that we act kittenish about our age. "Oh, well, I certainly am not going to tell anybody how old I am." And I'm not going to tell you on the radio, because these programs might be broadcast ten years from now, so it would no longer apply. But you know how old I am. A good many decades, and several decades older than you are, Donna. But I like your black hair with all that white coming out. It looks terrific.

Donna Otto: Thank you. I'll be glad when I can stand on the platform and have a little more gray hair, so they know that I'm serious about not dying my hair. But I think it is an awful indictment that our culture says that old is ugly. There's a man whose name is Kenneth Buchwald. He is quoted as saying baby boomers, of which you know the significant size of our country-70 million baby boomers-he said that they would rather "puke than ever be called a senior, much less old." And I thought, "What a horrible thing to have said about a member of our society-that old is so unpleasant to them, so distasteful to them."

And I agree with you. Not only is a facelift kind of expensive, but think of the time that it takes. I have to chuckle, because I have to think, I like high-necked clothes and winter kind of clothes. But if I have my facelift, it doesn't take long for your eye to drift a little further to my neck or to my hands or to my legs or to some other portion of my body. It just keeps going the other direction.

Elisabeth Elliot: Can I tell you about my friend Hattie? She was such a wonderful character. She didn't become a Christian until she was in her mid-50's. But she just went the whole way with the Lord Jesus Christ. I've never seen anybody who could witness like Hattie.

But she called me up one day and she said, "Elisabeth, I have a question. Do you think Jesus would be mad if I got a facelift?" I said, "Hattie, for heaven's sake, all I know is I don't think Jesus wants me to get a facelift. I don't know whether Jesus wants you to have a facelift or not."

Well, the next thing I knew, she called me later and she said, "Well, I just decided I'm going to get one." So she went to the hospital and she woke up the next morning with two black eyes. She was so miserable and she looked in the mirror. She said, "Lord, please forgive me. I should have listened to Elisabeth. Why did I do this?"

Then a few minutes later, she looked in the mirror again and she said, "But maybe I'll do it just one more time." Dear Hattie! She was a wonderful person. She died of cancer not too long after that, so it was really money down the drain. But I think she learned her lesson.

Donna Otto: Well, I think the "money down the drain" is a part of what older women are teaching or can teach, can model. Where do we steward our money and our time and our energy? I don't want these times together to say too many times of how many times you have modeled for me. I don't ever remember you and I having a conversation about how to use money. But I have watched how you have spent your money and I've certainly watched how you've spent your energy, set your face like a flint in more ways. That has been a model to me.

When I feel like I'm too tired to do this, I remember you being at a conference and having addressed the audience five times in one day. I thought, "That is the model." This is a body that God has given us and energy to use for His glory. So as an older woman, what I do and how I live out my life is far more the spoken Word. Who is it that says, "If you speak of Christ and if you must use words"-

Elisabeth Elliot: "Speak of Him. But if you must, use words." We speak far more loudly in what we are and what we do than what we say. Right? Thank you for your very kind words about me. All I can say to that is "to God be the glory." Whatever you may have learned, just assign that to the Lord. Thanks for being with me again, Donna Otto.

Donna Otto: Thank you.

Lisa Barry: I'm sure many of us can point to some change we've made as a result of listening to Gateway To Joy. That just proves the point that we are all looking for direction from people who have weathered the storms of life and lived to tell about it.

As we close today, I'd like to strongly encourage you to purchase the Mother's Day packet. It's full of just the kind of information Elisabeth and Donna have been talking about today. Find out more by calling us toll-free: 1-800-759-4JOY. That's 1-800-759-4569. Or write to Gateway To Joy, Box 82500, Lincoln, Nebraska, 68501. Gateway To Joy has been a production of Back to the Bible.

Tomorrow Donna talks about how the women at her church responded to mentoring. That's next time on Gateway To Joy.