Lisa Barry: Elisabeth Elliot?s daughter Valerie has been our guest for the last two weeks, and today the focus will be on parenting. Valerie is well educated on the subject, having eight children of her own. She and Elisabeth share their thoughts today on what is lacking in many parental strategies today. So stay tuned for some timely and practical advice as we begin this Thursday edition of Gateway to Joy.

Elisabeth Elliot: "You are loved with an everlasting love." That?s what the Bible says. "And underneath are the everlasting arms." This is your friend Elisabeth Elliot, talking today with my daughter, Valerie. She has been talking about a variety of things. She talked about her stepfather, my second husband, Addison Leitch. She?s been talking about some hymns, and she sang some hymns for us. One of the most important things that I know she has wisdom about is teaching children to obey.

I have a letter from one of my newsletter readers. She says, "The main article is on obedience training with children. My question is I have an eight-month-old daughter. She has been such a good baby for my wife and me. It?s really a gift from the Lord. What are some things I can do now to start training her to obey?" Okay, I won?t read the whole thing. I?ll stop right there, Val. This gentleman has this question. "What are some things I can do now to start training her to obey at the age of eight months?"

Valerie Shepard: Well, often a baby at that age is starting to?will turn over when you?re trying to change their diapers. You can?t let that happen, because it?s very inconvenient. So if they insist on turning over or twisting, just give them a quick spank on the leg and say, "No," very firmly. That?s one thing they must learn. They must learn the meaning of no. They must learn that when you look at them seriously in the face, you mean what you say and you?re in charge.

I?ve often had to say to my children, even as older ones, "I am the mother and you have to do what I say." But even a little one at that age is probably crawling by that time. She will probably need a spank on the hand or he will need a spank on the hand if he is touching things he shouldn?t touch. Just the serious and quiet voice of a mother or father who means what they say makes all the difference in the world to the child. It?s so sad to see parents who repeat over and over again, or say things they don?t really mean to their children. Saying, "Johnny, you probably shouldn?t touch that. Johnny, you probably . . . No, that?s not a good idea." Sort of commenting about the child doing something, but never actually saying to the child, "No. You may not touch that," and letting that one sentence be enough for the child to understand you mean it.

Elisabeth Elliot: And you do have to start earlier than people think?earlier than the child is speaking. The child understands a great deal, doesn?t he, before he can speak.

Valerie Shepard: Yes.

Elisabeth Elliot: My mother claimed that a child who is a week old begins very quickly to know the touch of his mother?s hand and the sound of his mother?s voice. You?ve made a very important point that you have to speak calmly and quietly to this child. We?re not talking about raising your voice or screaming. We?re talking about letting the child know the voice of authority. What is the voice of authority?

My husband and I of course travel a great deal on airplanes. We just see absolute chaos in these families where the children are totally out of control. The young parents roll their eyes, hunch up their shoulders and say, "They?re just kids. What can you do?" You can do a very great deal if you start soon enough.

You know Arlita Winston and what a good, godly mother she is and what a wonderful family she raised. I think she is now the grandmother of 25 or something like that. She said to me, "The more quietly I spoke to my children, the more serious they knew that I was."

The same writer said about his eight-month-old daughter, "She has her own will, but doesn?t willfully disobey. I guess my feeling is that we should wait to punish her in any way." But maybe you can share some of your experience with these very early days.

Valerie Shepard: I think the longer you wait to teach the child that they can?t have their own way, the harder it will be to teach them. I remember a mother saying to me in Mississippi once, "Well, for the first year of their life, they pretty much get their own way. They get to sleep when they want and they get to eat when they want." At the time, I thought, "Well, maybe she?s right. But I?m not sure I want it that way."

I remember as I had more children?I hadn?t had my fifth or sixth by that time?but as I had more children, I was more and more serious in my mind that they could not have their own way, even as infants. I speak for scheduling, and yet I know there have been mothers who have taken it to the extreme. There have been babies that have failed to thrive because of scheduling. So we have to use wisdom and we have to use the Holy Spirit?s direction in training our children to follow a schedule.

But a child who gets his own way more and more is going to become a monster.

Elisabeth Elliot: He is a menace to society.

Valerie Shepard: He is a menace. And so you must start early and you must decide on a flexible, workable schedule when the child takes naps and when the child is fed. The sooner you start with a gentle and quiet spirit and with the seriousness of the Lord?s mandate upon your own life?that you must be in authority over your children?the easier it will be to train your children, because early on they?ll get used to the fact that you?re in control.

Elisabeth Elliot: And before we go any further, I just want to say that on Gateway to Joy it?s always my purpose to refer you to the Word of God. Elisabeth Elliot does not have any authority apart from the Scriptures. Where do we get this idea that children are supposed to obey their parents? Well, very simple. Look up Ephesians 6:1. "Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. Honor your father and mother, which is the first commandment with promise." Val, do you think that a child is going to learn to honor his father and mother if he doesn?t try it before he is 15 years old or so?

Valerie Shepard: No. The habit of dishonoring has become so engrained by that time. I didn?t say he couldn?t change, but it?s going to be so difficult because of 15 years of habitually getting his own way.

Elisabeth Elliot: I think I may have told this story before on this program, but boy, it is worth telling again. I confess that I was watching one of those talk shows on TV. The subject was parents who were bullied by their children. One woman gave as an illustration?she said, "If I ask my 16-year-old son to take out the garbage, he will stand there with his hands on his hips and look me straight in the eye and say, ?I will take out the garbage when I want to.?" I was just tickled to death when a woman jumped up in the audience and she said, "If my son said that to me, he would be wearing that garbage."

I don?t think any 16-year-old boy would dream of saying a thing like that to his mother if she had started soon enough to establish verbal authority. Teach the baby long before he can talk that you are in charge. He is not going to run this household.

Valerie Shepard: But we do want to give hope to those mothers who have just discovered the right way to train their children to obedience. With the Lord, there is mercy. With the Lord, there is strength and power to change the old ways and the old habits. I?ve found myself many times giving into my children, just because I wanted to please them so badly, and then realizing later that was totally wrong and going back to my children and saying, "Forgive me. I was not being the mother that I should have been to you." Thank the Lord that He is merciful and forgives us and there is reconciliation between me and my children.

But let?s be sure to give hope to those that may have been going along, letting their children have their own way, and then realizing, "Oh, my goodness! I need to start at square one." But with the Lord, there is always the hope of a new beginning and a fresh start. We can say very clearly to our children, "I have not been training you or teaching you that the parents must be in authority over you. You cannot have your own way."

Elisabeth Elliot: I have sometimes suggested to mothers who have asked me, "Well, what shall I do now because I?ve made so many mistakes?" I say, "Well, you can go home from this seminar this afternoon and gather your children around and say, ?We?re going to have a family meeting.?" The first thing you want to tell them is "We have made some mistakes with you. We have asked the Lord to help us, to forgive us for not raising you the way we should have. Now we want you to understand that we are going to start over. This is the way it is going to be."

I really believe, Val, that children respond very positively when they are perfectly sure that their parents are serious. When you tell them, "Your Mama has learned something," well, that will blow their minds. They didn?t know Mama could learn anything. Mama is supposed to know everything already, but Mama doesn?t know everything and Mama has learned something this afternoon. So from now on, we are going to expect you to do what we say the first time.

It?s amazing how children will live up to parents? expectations. If you expect your kids to be little devils, they?re going to be little devils.

Valerie Shepard: Right. And if you expect those children to be a joy because the Lord gave them to you as gifts and you teach them to obey with proper punishments?that means without anger, but with self-control, firmness and clarity of what the rules are and what the consequences are?your children will turn out to be a joy. They will be a joy to be around. They will actually be fun as teenagers.

I remember when people would say to me with little ones, "Oh, they?re easy now. Enjoy these days, because it just gets worse when they?re teenagers." I thought, "What a terrible thing to say to young parents!" We should be raising our children in faith that the Lord is going to help us get better and better at parenting. The Lord is going to help these children to understand more and more as they get older that it is right to obey parents and it makes the home a peaceful place.

Elisabeth Elliot: One more word from the Scripture here. It?s the same chapter that I read a moment ago. This is in Ephesians 6. And this is a word to you fathers. "Fathers, do not exasperate your children. Instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord." And the Lord?s training and instruction is faithful. It?s gentle. It?s not necessarily easy, but He is going to help you, if you?re willing to listen. Thanks, Val, for being with us again today.

Valerie Shepard: You?re welcome.

Elisabeth Elliot: I trust you?re going to have some more wisdom for us tomorrow about the training of children.

Lisa Barry: If some of you are expecting children or have an infant right now, let me suggest a great book called HINTS ON CHILD TRAINING. Elisabeth?s great-grandfather wrote this book, and even though it?s over 100 years old, the wisdom in it is timeless. We also have a video available called A PEACEFUL HOME, which features both Elisabeth and Valerie talking more on the subject of raising your family. Both are great resources and would also make a great baby shower gift for someone.

For information on how to purchase either of these materials, you can call us here toll-free at 1-800-759-4JOY. Or drop us a line at Gateway to Joy, Box 82500, Lincoln, Nebraska, 68501. To access our Web site, type gatewaytojoy.org. Today?s program has been a production of Back to the Bible.

Elisabeth and Valerie finish up this two-week series with a word about the discipline of children, so make sure and join us again tomorrow for another Gateway to Joy.