Elisabeth Elliot: A real marriage?a good marriage?is going to destroy one thing: the ego. It will ruin it.

Lisa Barry: I wonder how many people hear that quote and say, "That's right. Destroy the ego?my spouse's ego, that is." How quick I am to understand my own point of view and be merciful toward my own shortcomings. But to allow the same courtesies to my husband? Well, that's another thing. Elisabeth is going to bring some practical counsel on relationships. Stay tuned as we hear more from her conference in Madison, Wisconsin. That?s next right here on Gateway to Joy.

Elisabeth Elliot: This is the last part of that journal entry that I made a year ago. "Who can bear this danger? We try at once to defend and attack. We become both the defense and the prosecution. There?s a fine line between love and hate. To love this woman is to love God. To hate this woman is to hate God."

Does that sound much too strong? Let me read my scriptural support. 1 John 4:20: "If a man says, ?I love God,? while hating his brother"?and surely it would apply to hating his wife, "he is a liar. If he does not love the brother whom he has seen"?and I think I could insert there with reverence?"If he does not love the wife whom he lives with, it cannot be that he loves God, whom he has not seen."

Pretty straight talk, isn?t it, from the Scripture. It is a revelation. Back to this language?revolution, revelation, invasion, exposure, destruction. Marriage, in fact, will do you in. It will break you. What exactly does marriage destroy? If it?s conducted in the way that I think God designed for us, a real marriage?a good marriage?is going to destroy one thing: the ego. It will ruin it, and thus we will be free.

Some of you are feeling very twitchy and thinking, "But what about what modern psychiatry is telling us about the need for self-esteem and building up our self-image and what?s going to happen to me? Am I going to become a zero? Am I going to become a doormat?"

Again, I give you Jesus? words: "He that loseth his life for My sake shall find his true self." I believe that is a spiritual principle that goes into operation the minute we start obeying God?s command that we are to give up our right to ourselves. There is a mystery here. Does it make sense? It?s foolishness, because it?s the message of the cross.

As Paul said, "The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are outside the faith." The world is telling us exactly the opposite. Why is it so hard for us to get a hold of these things? Well, because it cuts diametrically across what we are so programmed to hear. Subliminally, we are receiving this message all the time. "Do your thing. Have it your way. Build up your self-esteem. Get what you want in life. If it feels good, do it. If it doesn?t feel good, don?t do it. You owe it to yourself." Have you heard all that stuff? Of course. We can?t escape hearing it.

But we need to straighten up our thinking by comparing it with the straight edge of Scripture. The only way we can tell how crooked we are is to compare it with the straight edge of Scripture. That?s why it is so essential that I not be just popping off and dishing out a whole lot of stuff that are my opinions and neat little tricks that I?ve found out that work, but that I give you something far more lasting.

Continuing with the journal, "Is the language so different from the hard words Christ spoke to those who contemplated following Him? Give up your rights. Forsake. Deny. Sell everything you have. Hate your father and mother. Lose your life." Very hard words, but that?s not what we?re hearing from the TV, from the world, from the pulpit, sometimes.

Love leads us where we did not intend to go, where we could not have chosen to go, if we?d known the whole story ahead of time. Romantic love is exhausted and soon peters out. Moods, feelings, glandular conditions are wholly undependable, so Christ leads His followers.

What did He promise in return? Love that will not let us go. Abundant life. Peace that passes understanding. Joy unspeakable and full of glory. He promised that those who would lose themselves for Him would find their true self. Love accepts all of this, and in place of the fear, the guilt, the uneasiness, the self-protection, the resentment, God gives us a happy, singing, radiant joy. Try it. I beg you to try it, before you say, "Well, that sounds good." Just try putting it into practice.

Receive this woman, this man. Open your hands, open your arms, open your eyes to what God has given and say yes. The principle of the cross is the principle of exchange?my life for yours. Jesus laid down His life for me and He says, "We in our turn must lay down our lives for each other." It is a small gate that leads out into largeness of life, and that small gate requires humility. I must stoop to get through it.

So the question that a husband must never ask and the question that the wife must never ask when difficulties arise is "But what about her? But what about him? What is he supposed to do?" Of course, I am speaking to each individual here today. It is not our responsibility to say, "What about the other person?" I?m speaking to what God is saying to each of us, and this is where God has nailed me again and again and again. I say, "But Lord, he is wrong. He is mistaken. He shouldn?t do it this way." And the Lord says, "But I?m teaching you to love him, even though he is a sinner."

"While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Suppose He had waited until we shaped up. We?d all be in big trouble, wouldn?t we? He never would have gotten us. He had to love us the way we are, and we have to love each other the way we are.

Now we?re going to get on later to the fact that the beloved is seen first as perfect, and the lover can never be satisfied with anything less than perfection. It says in Ephesians 5 that Christ loved the Church and gave Himself to present a pure bride, spotless and holy. God?s love will never be satisfied until we are perfect. That?s His standard. But in the meantime, He loves us as we are.

Love obeys. The third condition of discipleship is follow. The first is give up your rights to yourself. The second is take up your cross, which is acceptance. The third is obedience. No flag is redder to most women than the idea of submission. You knew I was going to get around to this, didn?t you? The Bible says, "Wives, obey your husbands." Does it say that? Well, it doesn?t exactly literally say, "Wives, obey your husbands." It says, "Wives, submit to your husbands." It says in Titus 2 that the older women are to teach the younger women to love their husbands and we are to set an example of obedience and humility.

In my marriage ceremony, each time I have promised to love, honor and obey. The immediate response of any natural, sinful woman is "Me? Obey him?" Why should I obey him? We?re going to get to that. Nothing has caused more confusion or more chaos in homes or more misunderstanding and suffering than these positions that God has assigned to the husband and the wife. I think there?s just as much misunderstanding about the husband?s position as there is about the wife?s.

So I want to read, first of all, a letter that I just recently received from one of my radio listeners. She said, "I want to tell you the miracle that God has worked in my marriage because I decided at any cost to obey, rather than read and rationalize those Scriptures regarding the home. My husband and I had had shaky start five and a half years ago, because we had to start from scratch as to what a Christian home and marriage are supposed to be. Let?s just say that God answered as we sought Him, and His way is best. I am deliriously happy in my marriage today because of God alone.

I say all this as an introduction, so that I can say something about gentlemen. My observation has been that the more I seek to act like a lady, then the more he naturally acts like a gentleman. The more I am submissive, the more he leads. What a great joy it has been for God to reveal to me our blessed differences and to deliver me from every trace of the women?s liberation movement. I?m liberated, all right?free in Christ to be a woman and to enjoy all that that means."

She wrote this on a card that says, "The Lord is my portion; therefore, I will wait for Him. The Lord is good to those whose hope is in Him." "You are free to use my story as God leads. I don?t remember if I mentioned that the biggest changes have come since I have come to be a keeper here, a homeworker. I pray that God will allow me always to remain here, serving Him through prayer, helping my husband, writing letters of encouragement and other opportunities as God leads. I have never been happier nor more fulfilled. I continue to pray though, as your prayer card inspires, to give up, to be delivered from all my own plans and agenda. Please pray for me."

Well, it?s very heartening to me when I hear from someone who has had ears to hear these very unpopular things that I know God has assigned me to speak and to write. So when I speak about the obedience of love, I?m speaking not just to women?not by any means?but to all of us.

Lisa Barry: I hope you're enjoying these talks as much as I am. In fact, my husband and I have been listening together and we?re joking about the imperfections in our own marriage. It helps to have a sense of humor, doesn't it? Well, another thing you may find helpful besides laughter is a book by Elizabeth Rice Hanford called ME? OBEY HIM? I just love that title because it speaks volumes about our own attitudes. You'll appreciate its practical and honest approach to humility and submission.

For more information on how you can order this book, call us toll-free at 1-800-759-4JOY. Or if you prefer to write, the address is Gateway to Joy, Box 82500, Lincoln, Nebraska, 68501. Our Web address is gatewaytojoy.org. Gateway to Joy is a listener-supported production of Back to the Bible.

Well, if the differences between men and women have ever been a source of frustration to you, you'll want to make it a point to join us tomorrow, as Elisabeth celebrates those very differences. Find out more next time on Gateway to Joy.